4- or 6-point harness?

[Sean-og]

Initially, I intended to order the 4-point harness when I order my 7. Then after speaking with different owners and reading various threads here and on BC, I decided I had better get the 6-point harness, since I know I will do at least some track days and some event organisers require 6-point. But now, after following the "NASA Sevens at Infineon" thread in the Events section, I get the impression that I may have to replace them with wider belts anyway to participate in NASA events... or maybe not :confused: . Any ideas? I don't want to order something that will need to be replaced the first time I go out for some humiliation at the track :) .

[magnusfeuer]

Hmm.

Time to dig into NASA Club Code and Regulations (CCR) found at: http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

Section 11 deals with HPDE technical requirements.

Section 11.4.8, covering seatbelts, states that seatbelts should be in factory configuration. In my world, that makes the Caterham stock 4/6 point harness OK.

Non stock seatbelts requires conformity to section 15.5 (Safety equipment, Driver restraint system) under the racing part of the CCR.

Section 15.5.2 states that lap belts must be 3 inch, which is where Caterham 4/6 point harness fails. These harnesses have 2" lap belts.

In conclusion, for HPDE you should be able to pass tech inspection by pointing at the Caterham logo on your shoulder belts and say "stock configuration".

The time trial rule book, found at http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/Time-Trial-Rules.pdf
, states that the car should be conformant of section 11 in the CCR.
Conclusion: Stock Caterham 4/6 points are OK for time trials as well.

If you want to go beyond HPDE 4 and move into full racing, you need to replace your harness with something that fulfills the requirements in section 15.5 of the CCR.

/Magnus F.

[slomove]

If you still need to order (as I understand) why are you considering the overpriced, questionable harness from Caterham (4 or 6-point) when you can have a proper harness, even with 3" straps for half the price, e.g. http://www.racerwholesale.com/catalo...hp?cPath=21_70 ?

Gert

[magnusfeuer]

Just checked the NASA time trial classification for Caterham 7. We are in the TTU (Time Trial Unlimited) class just under the TTR flat-out racing class.

Slicks are allowed, but not sequential gearboxes.

The other cars in TTU are:
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 ('06+)
Dodge Viper
Dodge Viper ACR
Ferrari 360
Ferrari 550
Ferrari 575M
Ferrari 612
Ford GT
Lotus Exige 240R
Porsche 993 Turbo S
Porsche 996 GT3
Porsche 996 Turbo S

With slicks on tehcnical tracks we should do just fine, although the Exige will be interesting.

/Magnus F.

[magnusfeuer]

Another thing.

In HPDE (and racing), roll bars must be padded with Ethafoam or Ensolite according to section 15.6.4 in the CCR.

There is also talk about a support bracket for the seat back, as per 15.6.22, should the seat back fail.

I don't think that this is relevant for the Caterham seats as they don't have a moveable seatback. Also, we can only move a few inches backward before we make contact with the rear wall.

[Scott E]

Sean,
Get the three point inertia belts with your kit (at no extra cost) and then find a six point set from a race equipment supplier. The Caterham harnesses are overpriced based on what I've seen available in the market.
I bought a 3" five point set for driver and passenger for $100 from Simpson Racing. I chose the latch-link instead of cam-locks. I'm cheap. I took the fifth point belt from the passenger set-up and added it (Caterham has two sub-belt mounting points behind the seat) to the drivers five point to create a six point drivers harness. So now the passenger is a four point. I think you can get a six point harness for the same price as the five but, I'm not sure.
My first, and only, track day, so far, was with the Alfa Club at The Streets last September - so my experience is limited. But six points locked me into that car to a degree that left the four point lacking quite obviously.
Given the money spent on performance upgrade-itis that I've read about... $100 to $200 spent on a pair af six point harnesses will be, once experienced, well worth the cost.

Scott E

[Sean-og]

Thanks to all for the replies. I intend to get a Superlight, which comes standard with the Caterham 4-point harness. The 6-point is a $220 option (!), so I will ask about the possibility of deleting the harnesses from the order altogether for a reasonable decrease in the overall cost. If I am told this is not possible, then I'll just get the 4-point and immediately shelve it (or E-Bay), and put in one of the NASA-approved 6-point sets described above.

Thanks again!

[Rich H]

Thanks to all for the replies. I intend to get a Superlight, which comes standard with the Caterham 4-point harness. The 6-point is a $220 option (!), so I will ask about the possibility of deleting the harnesses from the order altogether for a reasonable decrease in the overall cost. If I am told this is not possible, then I'll just get the 4-point and immediately shelve it (or E-Bay), and put in one of the NASA-approved 6-point sets described above.

Thanks again!

Note that NASA doesn't "approve" any belts. For HPDE it allows the manufacturer-supplied set, or requires compliance with the CC&Rs. If you don't present the car with the manufacturer's equipment installed, the burden is entirely upon you to demonstrate compliance with the CC&Rs to the satisfaction of the tech inspector. You might also observe that the CC&Rs require arm restraints in open cars.

The NASA CC&Rs do allow 2" FIA-approved lap belts in a six-point harness. The last time I checked, Caterhams's 2" belts were FIA-tagged. Caterham will also supply a 3" lap belt if you prefer. That's what I ordered so that my car would pass tech with any sanctioning body.

Your best option might be to order the Caterham 6-point system with arm restraints and your choice of 2" or 3" lap belts. That way you shouldn't have to comply with the CC&Rs but, if you do, Caterham will be able to supply documentation of the raceworthiness of your belts as installed.

Just some thoughts to consider. Good luck with your order.

[soareyes]

Another thing.

In HPDE (and racing), roll bars must be padded with Ethafoam or Ensolite according to section 15.6.4 in the CCR.

I was wondering about this, as I saw that rule too, but at my first HPDE at Infineon I didn't have any padding and nobody said anything. I know some of the other Sevens didn't have this either. I do plan to get some padding on my new roll bar prior to the next event. Here's the text from the CCR:

"15.6.4 Padding
All roll cage surfaces that may come in contact with the driver shall be padded with high-
density padding such as Ethafoam or Ensolite. It is recommended that padding meeting
SFI specification 45.1 be used."

Maybe the key here is "surfaces that may come in contact with the driver". My racing seat is high enough to protect the back of my head whereas my stock seat didn't.

Stan

[moosetestbestanden]

The 6-point is a $220 option (!)

Just get the four points that come w/ the SLR and order the "crutch belt" (nyuk) from CC for about 30 - 35 bucks. You can install it at the same time as you're doing the build. It works great w/ the Tillet(s?) seat.

You would be doing the build, wouldn't you?

[Sean-og]

You would be doing the build, wouldn't you?

Chris - Absolutely! To me, that's part of the fun. Also, I think self-building will add to the pride of ownership, and make maintenance and repair easier due to the prior familiarization with the car.

Note that NASA doesn't "approve" any belts.

Rich - Noted. But they sure as hell can disapprove them! I wasn't aware that a 3" wide version was available from the factory, though. That sounds like it might be a good way to go if they refuse to sell the kit minus the harnesses, or only offer a token discount for ordering that way.


A huge thanks to all of you for all the helpful advice. Information about things like NASA regs and SB100 information aren't likely to be found on Blatchat, and CCC has been very useful for me to plan my build. Truly an invaluable resource.

[Rich H]

Rich - Noted. But they sure as hell can disapprove them! I wasn't aware that a 3" wide version was available from the factory, though. That sounds like it might be a good way to go if they refuse to sell the kit minus the harnesses, or only offer a token discount for ordering that way.

The disapproval possibility is what I meant that you should be able to avoid altogether by going with a factory 6-point setup. Don't know what dealer you're using, but Rich Kamp has been through the permutations of belt possibilities from the factory, including my setup, so you might ask him for details on what you think would work for you.

Also, if you go with the 3" lap belts and the racing seats, make sure that you specify the adjuster pull direction, up or down, that fits your body. This is obvious when you sit in a car but harder to explain in words. In my case, for example, I require pull-up adjusters because my waist is so small that tightening the pull-down adjusters requires wedging hands down between hips and the sides of the seat, which is impossible to do. And the lowered floor, if you opt for that, makes this more pronounced. Anyway, Rich Kamp can show you this in person or you can look at my car if your in this area.