Exhaust and steering column issue

[CASwede]

I noticed my steering column is very lightly rubbing the side of an exhaust header. I had some high temp grease I put on the spot, but long term I'm thinking these two shouldn't touch.

I've read about MG's having their engines sink over time from the engine mounts. Has anyone had that problem with a Caterham? I have the round mounts. I expect they didn't always rub, but have settled into place.

The way I see it, I have two choices. a) Replace mounts or get some shims to raise the engine a bit. Or b) remove the steering column and dent the header a bit until it doesn't rub.

I'm not very keen on denting the exhaust, even though it only needs a millimeter or two until it's free of the column. If others have had problems with the mounts compressing, I can imagine being back at squiare one in a couple of years.

Thoughts?

[breezy7]

Take a look here :http://www.thecaterhamproject.com/CaterhamBuild12.html at the bottom of the page. The installation in the link is a Zetec, is that what you have? The engine mounts are know for a short life so that maybe a problem too.
Mike

[Sean]

It sounds like the mounts may need to be replaced, but also, the steering rack can be rotated in the clamps a bit to get it to clear for now. It doesn't take much rotation at all to gain an eighth inch or so of clearance, and it is very easy to do.

[CASwede]

I had read about the rotation on a Caterham build website. An eighth would easily clear it. I'll take a look at the setup this afternoon to see how it would work.

[CASwede]

Take a look here :http://www.thecaterhamproject.com/CaterhamBuild12.html at the bottom of the page. The installation in the link is a Zetec, is that what you have? The engine mounts are know for a short life so that maybe a problem too.
Mike

Zetec here, yes.

Good photos for my reference. I'll give the rack rotation a try. Then mounts. But it's nice to see others have given it the hammer w/out adverse effects. The MG posts didn't seem to be too concerned about a little dent.

[breezy7]

I did some digging through the caterhamproject site and found this http://www.thecaterhamproject.com/CaterhamBuild11.html. The steering column hit the outlet for the water pump so a set of spacers were installed and the steering rack rotated to clear the outlet. He still had to dent the header though.
Mike

[CASwede]

Rotating the rack did the trick. But my U Joint jammed on the frame. However, I was able to relieve a lot of the pressure between the two.

My exhaust is low where it exits the body. My air filter is low on the hood opening. I think it's time to raise the engine.

Installing new mounts appears straightforward. Would I be able to remove and install mounts if I only lifted the engine an inch or two?

[Doug Liedblad]

I think you can replace the mounts by lifting the engine a bit. You may need to remove the entire engine mount from the frame but probably not. maybe loosen it to help line things up when reinstalling.

Someone replaced the mounts with an earlier Jag E type mount. I think it was Sean. I believe they are equivalent and much cheaper from aftermarket suppliers.

I've shimmed at the mount by the exhaust (also a Zetec) so the headers don't hit the ali.

Doug

[moosetestbestanden]

I think you can replace the mounts by lifting the engine a bit. You may need to remove the entire engine mount from the frame but probably not. maybe loosen it to help line things up when reinstalling.

Someone replaced the mounts with an earlier Jag E type mount. I think it was Sean. I believe they are equivalent and much cheaper from aftermarket suppliers.

I've shimmed at the mount by the exhaust (also a Zetec) so the headers don't hit the ali.

Doug

Correct me if I'm wrong here but aren't you all talking about the rubber bushes like these under the mounts rather than the mounts themselves? Technically and pedantically speaking they aren't 'mounts' as such, at least not in my dictionary.

Personally I've never been much of a fan of the 'use a hammer' school of automotive repair. Find the problem and fix it. Bashing tubes to make a fit is just about as cheesy as it gets.

Edit: Sean seems to be going through mounts like there's no tomorrow. It's weird.

[rzempel]

Edit: Sean seems to be going through mounts like there's no tomorrow. It's weird.

He (and probably many others) isn't fitting a big washer on top of the rubber. Without a washer, all the load forces are i shear between the inner sleeve and the rubber. Sooner or later that will fail--and, with his power, I expect sooner). With a big washer on top the rubber is in compression.

This mount might last forever... http://www.terrysjag.com/product/TJP9.html Of course, there'd probably be problems induced elsewhere. :-)

[Sean]

Yeah, engine mounts is probably not the best term for the part, but Caterham describe them as "engine mounting rubber", and just about every other on-line source refers to them by the "engine mount" name or similar, so what the hell.

Previously, I did not have a B.F.W. (that stands for big washer - the "f" is silent) on top of the what-cha-ma-callit mount and beneath the MOTOR MOUNT that attaches to the engine, but I do now. Without a washer, the 2.3 made contact with the bonnet in multiple places, but it only just made contact. Interference is increased now, but I will relieve that soon.

I don't expect a rubber mount doo-hickey to last forever, but I don't think expecting one to last more than 5K miles is asking too much. I should have had a washer on there from the get-go, but I didn't.

And now, back to the main topic:
CASwede -
You should only rotate the steering rack the minimum amount required for clearance.
Yes, it is easy to put the car on stands and then loosen the rubber mount bolts and jack up the engine just a little to replace the rubber mounts. I did not have to loosen the steel motor mounts from the engine when I changed mine, but you should double-check the alignment of the gearbox/drivetrain in the tunnel before tightening everything down (which is why you should put the car on stands first). The first time I replaced one, mine became mis-aligned, and made casual contact in the tunnel. My error was easy to correct, but would have been even easier to prevent. The second time I replaced one, I also loosened the two gearbox mount bolts beforehand to aid drivetrain alignment. This made it easy to jimmy the engine L or R just a bit as required before torqueing everything back down.

[CASwede]

Thanks all.

Well, it turns out that the terminology discussion has become more pertinent.

A closer inspection of my mounts (metal thingies) shows what I think is an interesting configuration. The starboard side is quite nice, with tubes attaching firmly to a plate on the block.

The port side includes two curiosities. Mis-matched mounting arms. The forward arm being squared, ending in two bolts attached to the block. The aft arm has two bolt holes, only one of which is attached to the block. What looks like metal behind the aft arm is actually a reflection of the block behind it. Aside from the area directly attached under the bolt, the aft arm is free in space.

IMG_1936.jpg

IMG_1935.jpg

I'm guessing that the aft mount has quite a bit of stress on the arm, given the offset nature of the connection. And then I also found that the forward mount has seen better days itself.

IMG_1938.jpg

It's cracked, and it's precariously holding the block up. And all this time I've been complaining about my engine mapping's rough idle.

So heck. I'll replace the mounts AND the hockey pucks. Any thoughts on mounts? I saw Raceline had some Zetec mounts that looked pretty stout. I guess I should be grateful I didn't have a bolt shear off inside the block. For rubber, I also saw these guys online, but pricey. http://www.vibra-technics.co.uk/kit_..._engine_mount_ If you have a favorite, don't be shy to let me know. I'll be purchasing parts in the next day or so. I've got to get the car serviceable for my pensioner dad who is coming soon to relive his youth in my car.

[rzempel]

I wonder if the mismatch is due to the different mount points used between the silvertop Zetec and the later blacktop motors...? Not that that's helpful in any way. But I wonder if Caterham changed the mounts along the way and you have the wrong setup.

[CASwede]

I wonder if the mismatch is due to the different mount points used between the silvertop Zetec and the later blacktop motors...? Not that that's helpful in any way. But I wonder if Caterham changed the mounts along the way and you have the wrong setup.

That could be. The original owner did an engine swap during construction.

[CASwede]

I finally got around to wrapping this up.

Jeff Gil at Gil's Auto Body in Pleasanton was kind enough to take a look at the mount, and did a weld job on it. We weren't going for looks, but so far so good. The original idea was to secure the two pieces while on the car, and then finalize the weld outside the car, so that we could keep the bolt holes lined perfectly. But he noticed brass brazing on the joint that he said would cause problems with his weld, so he had to grind it down and eyeball it. Still, I only had to file maybe a 1/16" off the side of one hole for the bolts to all line up again. Much better work by Jeff than I could have hoped to do.

Mount.jpg

The rubber bushes actually appeared to be in pretty good shape, but I went ahead and replaced both sides anyway since I was already in position. I used the XKE mounts Sean had found for $5, but the best deal I could find was about $13 on Amazon of all places, with free shipping.

The best news is that my air horns and filter come out of the car correctly. The exhaust doesn't beat up the body anymore. And my steering column is straight and unencumbered. The idle is much nicer as well. Nice to have this one taken care of.