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Modine oil cooler

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  • Modine oil cooler

    Hey Sean (or any other interested parties of course), didn't you think about installing one of those Modine oil coolers in your car at one point along the way. I'm interested in knowing what you thought about them, and what you ended up doing. CC shows one on their web site.

    Tom, I bled the clutch and tested it. All seems well, as near as I can tell. I was sat (English English :-/) in the car and put the transmission in gear. Then pressed the clutch, reached back to the left rear wheel to see if I could turn it, then released the clutch to see if I couldn't turn it. My sense is that if you go w/ the same thickness adapter that I have (8mm) you should be OK. I used the same clutch slave that you purchased.

    Some big purchases ahead, in the near future as things start coming together. I'm very motivated to move the project forward now. :-D
    Chris
    ------------
    A day you don't go a hundred is a day wasted

  • #2
    I looked at block mounted heat exchangers few years ago but read their efficiency is limited due to the small size and internal surface area. That way I ended up with a Laminova heat exchanger. Takes a bit more oil plumbing but the heat exchanger itself can replace directly a coolant hose section. A side benefit is the remote mounted oil filter that I can get to now much easier.

    I don't go to the track that often nowadays but this did reduce the oil temperature on hot days from over 150C to about 120C. For my road driving I would not need it at all. Keep in mind that is for a wimpy 170hp Zetec. For a monster Duratec you may need better heat dissipation on the track. Also, the radiator must be up to the job of additional heat load.
    Last edited by slomove; June 5, 2012, 08:46 AM.

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    • #3
      My engine was supplied with a Modine heat exchanger and mount installed - this one, as used on the CSR:



      ...but this set-up would not work for me, as it fouled a frame rail. My solution was to acquire a Raceline horizontal filter mount and a different, sandwich-style NOS Modine heat exchanger that I found which was installed on various Ford products back in the day. Here is a photo of my current set-up, though I use a slightly shorter filter now:



      Unfortunately, these heat exchangers are getting harder to find. I have read that Modine do not make them any more, but don't know if that is true or not. Here is a link to a PDF spec sheet: http://www.modine.com/publications/l...?c1=Automotive

      I too have read some accounts that the Modine might be unsuitable for various reasons, but I believe it's a bunch of hooey. These were used by Ford on many vehicles including the SSP Mustangs (CHP, etc.) without issue, and Cosworth installed them as standard on both the CSR and Formula Atlantic engines. Good enough for me.
      | | Sean

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      • #4
        The sandwich heat exchanger came stock on the Zetec SVT engines.

        I think they are as much to help the oil warm up quicker as well as keep the temp down when hot.

        I spoke to Redline about the proper temperature for their oil, the point they made was it works better after getting to 160آ؛ F+ and it it gets too hot there is something else wrong. Datalogging on my car shows that it takes at least 10 minutes to get to that temperature with a Raceline wetsump and inline oil cooler, no thermostat in the oil line.

        With a big wetsump tank, warm it up before going out on the track.

        Comment


        • #5
          Stokes used to complain of excessive oil temps w/ his Atlantic motor (among other things), w/ a conventional radiator type cooler. I'm probably going to go that way because CC shows a rad & mounts that would be basically p-n-p installation wise, but I was curious about the Modine and remembered Sean mentioning it some time ago. The plumbing lines to the radiator will be the only long ones.

          The plumbing w/ the dry sump will place the rad between the pump scavenge and the tank, w/ the tank then going to the pump into a filter and then on into the engine:

          Hey Magnus, how did you mount your Brise tank? I'd like to put some isolation between it and everything it comes into contact with, to reduce machine vibration-induced cavitation.
          Chris
          ------------
          A day you don't go a hundred is a day wasted

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          • #6
            Chris

            Will you have a senders so you can datalog temperatures and pressures of oil, fuel, and water as appropriate?

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            • #7
              All things being equal I would recommend that you look at the following properties of the coolers that you are considering for your application:
              1) Thermal heat rejection capacity.
              2) Physical size and installation requirements.
              3) Oil and coolant pressure drop / flow curves.

              I have specified both Laminova and Modine coolers for our engines at work.

              The Laminova cooler is very thermally efficient but depending on flow geometry can also result in higher fluid pressure drop on either or both fluid flows. They are also relatively expensive, at least in the low volumes that we require (a few hundred units per year). They are also relatively heavy, at least for our applications as the housings must be machined from billet.

              The Modine units that we use are OEM engine adaptations and are much less expensive as a result as they are produced in relatively large quantities. While they represent a couple of percent loss in thermal efficiency vs the Laminova style cooler, they are typically much lighter for a given thermal capacity and also typically offer reduced fluid pressure drop for a given flow rate.

              For our applications, assuming that there is adequate thermal capacity and physical mounting space available, the deciding factor is always fluid side pressure drop. Especially on the oil side. This is because the cooler is generally located between the oil pump and the main bearings. Hence the lower the pressure drop through the oil cooler, the higher the oil pressure at the main, rod and cam bearings.

              I hope that this helps.
              EscondidoRon

              '62 Lotus Seven
              '84 Turbo Esprit (x2)
              '14 Evora
              '77 Esprit S1 (RIP) :(

              "A man must keep a little back shop where he can be himself without reserve. In solitude alone can he know true freedom." -Michel De Montaigne 1588

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by moosetestbestanden View Post
                Hey Magnus, how did you mount your Brise tank? I'd like to put some isolation between it and everything it comes into contact with, to reduce machine vibration-induced cavitation.
                It rests on the bottom cross member, and is bolted to a small bracket on the top cross member that used to hold the coolant expansion tank. I've had some problem with the tank rubbing against the engine, but have solved it temporarily by simply pushing in a bit of hose material between the tank and engine. Looks like crap, but works. Next time I have the engine out, I'll grind off the offending bit.

                I wouldn't worry about cavitation since there is such a massive amount of oil (10 quarts) in it. Its mass probably acts as a damper in itself. In any case, I've had zero issues with oil pressure. As soon as I leave idle I have a steady 80 psi.

                /Magnus F.
                Last edited by magnusfeuer; June 5, 2012, 07:23 PM. Reason: Addenum

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Doug Liedblad View Post
                  Chris

                  Will you have a senders so you can datalog temperatures and pressures of oil, fuel, and water as appropriate?
                  No, I'm really only trying to make sure that everything (oil, coolant, fuel) works correctly and stays w/in proper operating range(s).

                  I'm not at all interested in the highly electronic end of modern track driving. I don't really care about launch control or (like Clarkson) flappy paddle shifting, shift lights or any kind of data logging. At my level those things are just toys for the obsessed as far as I'm concerned; I'm not racing on a high dollar race team. I used to use a (10 Hz, kind of accurate) GPS based data logger for speed, times etc. but after a while I realized that I never really looked at the information, because of time constraints mostly. I've learned to tell by the engine sound & feel when it's time to shift and I could pretty much tell where and when I screwed up by the seat of my pants. Or the tires would let me know, by sending me to the beach. :-O

                  For sure the transponder always tells you how well you have done. W/ sufficient seat time I've been able to correlate what the clock says to what my brain thinks my butt has told me. :-O

                  Ron: thanks for the Laminova info. Frankly I have no means of measuring pressure drop. The real decision for me is whether I install any kind of cooler or not. I *never* had any problems w/ my original wet sump rig, but that doesn't mean I won't have any now, given that I'll be running much higher output. Based on Stokes experience on-track I'll probably need some additional cooling capacity on hot days, even w/ the increased volume of oil. I'm a plug-n-play guy when it comes to assembling the system & CC has developed one that I can buy and install w/ minimum expense and difficulty. I'm heading that way initially and then will go elsewhere if required.

                  Magnus: thanks. The (horribly made) tank Brise sent me has a tab welded onto it to locate it onto the same spot that you're using. I was wondering if you had put anything between the bottom of the tank and the frame members. I have half a mind to ditch the thing, mostly because it's soooo ugly. Pace make a 5.5" dia. one that might fit in the same location. I'm ruminating....
                  Chris
                  ------------
                  A day you don't go a hundred is a day wasted

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just out of curiosity, does your engine have oil squirt nozzles aimed at the bottom side of the piston crowns? These do an amazing job...... But they also increase oil temp as a result.
                    EscondidoRon

                    '62 Lotus Seven
                    '84 Turbo Esprit (x2)
                    '14 Evora
                    '77 Esprit S1 (RIP) :(

                    "A man must keep a little back shop where he can be himself without reserve. In solitude alone can he know true freedom." -Michel De Montaigne 1588

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by escondidoron View Post
                      Just out of curiosity, does your engine have oil squirt nozzles aimed at the bottom side of the piston crowns? These do an amazing job...... But they also increase oil temp as a result.
                      I don't think so.
                      Chris
                      ------------
                      A day you don't go a hundred is a day wasted

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Senders for pressure and temps aren't terribly expensive. The Pectel use standard Bosch senders. They do help find issues quickly if you have datalogging. You only need to look at them if there is an issue.

                        Does your ECU support datalogging?

                        Are you using the old wiring harness or building a new one?

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                        • #13
                          Chris,

                          I placed the tank directly on the bottom cross members with no insulation. I haven't had any cavitaion issues. I think that any rubber soft enough to provide a dampening effect may be worn out quite quickly due to vibration, head and the weight of the oil in the Brise tank.

                          /Magnus F.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Doug Liedblad View Post
                            Senders for pressure and temps aren't terribly expensive. The Pectel use standard Bosch senders. They do help find issues quickly if you have datalogging. You only need to look at them if there is an issue.

                            Does your ECU support datalogging?

                            Are you using the old wiring harness or building a new one?
                            I have the senders and receivers and the instruments but I don't log anything (that I'm aware of) and I don't know if my current ECU can do so. I still have the SBD harness and intend to continue to use it, unless there's a compelling reason why I can't. It has all the vital bits on it. As mentioned, I don't consider shift lights or launch control or Stack-like instruments vital, or even that useful. Things happen so fast on track for me (other drivers are doubtless better than I) that I rarely have time to look at em.

                            I *may* have to get a new ECU to accommodate the new TBs, or rather the new injectors. I haven't had that conversation yet. For sure I'd rather not have to spend the money.
                            Chris
                            ------------
                            A day you don't go a hundred is a day wasted

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A heads up on the Brise tank. The bung for the oil temp sensor has a weird thread (I forgot which), and I ended up using an equally weird sensor that wasn't supported by my ECU. I had to create a voltage-temperature table by measuring the voltage and looking at a thermometer dipped into the tank in order to get a rough map.

                              Not perfect, but now I have a baseline temp to look for. Anything significantly over that indicates a problem.

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