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Fuel Injector nubie question

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  • Fuel Injector nubie question

    Hi There,
    I am trying to get rid of an intermtitent spluttering before dyno day.
    My Birkin over the past couple of months has started spluttering seemingly randomly, most noticable at around 2000/2500rpm. Feels like it's missing maybe. I cleaned the plugs which were pretty black and carbonated. (Not surprising though as it seems to be running quite rich). The car ran smoothly for 60 miles or so and then started the intermittent spluttering again.
    I did a 150 mile drive yesterday and it got to be the worst it's been.
    I thought maybe I'd change the plugs and the injectors.
    I pulled one of the injectors to get it's info and it seems to have three different serial numbers.

    F1SE-E5A (with a ford logo next to it)
    0280 150 945 (on the opposite side)

    I think they are EV1 stle connectors, 30lb high impedence, they have a red top.

    I found these sites on the web

    Purchase 32 lb/hr Disc High-Z Fuel Injector or shop other Fuel Injectors - High Impedance and Racetronix products. is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

    My spark plugs are NGK R PTR5A 13 by the way.
    Are these good plugs or should I try something else?

    Any suggestion/advice very welcomed.
    many thanks,
    Last edited by prabjohns; August 5, 2011, 07:19 PM. Reason: Added sparkplug info
    Paul. Birkin S3 /Dunnel zetec/emerald ECU

  • #2
    Looks like Doug's suggestion of RC Engineering in Torrance might be able to sort me out one way or another.

    Paul. Birkin S3 /Dunnel zetec/emerald ECU


    • #3
      Just leaving RC Engineering. For those of you who told me my problem Probably wasn't my injectors,
      You were........
      They tested them on the spot and the results came back 'excellent'
      Very nice people too.
      Back home for some more head scratching.
      I only have today as I'm having a painful proceedure for my 'frozen shoulder' tomorrow then I'll have my arm in a sling for two days.
      Paul. Birkin S3 /Dunnel zetec/emerald ECU


      • #4
        Grabbing at straws here... fuel filter?
        | | Sean


        • #5
          Hi Sean,
          Yes, fuel filter and plugs are what I want to try to find and change today.
          Paul. Birkin S3 /Dunnel zetec/emerald ECU


          • #6
            Nah, a fuel filter manifests itself as a lean out condition during high load. The car dies when you floor it. Same symptoms with a bad fuel pump.

            The rest of this post is pure speculation from my side.

            If the car was running fine, but is now running rich (thus clogging up the plugs), a few things may have happened, depending on if you run with a closed-loop lambda or not.

            If you have closed-loop lambda setup, check for any error codes, as they should be present. The following can happen:
            Shot lambda sensor that reports a false lean condition that the ECU tries to rectify by dumping more fuel into the engine.

            Shot mass airflow sensor that reports more air (or a lower temperature) than is actually passing through it. The ECU tries to dump more fuel to fix, which should also freak out the lambda sensor at the other end since it will see the rich condition.

            The following issues may exist with or without a closed-loop lambda sensor.
            Obstructed exhaust.
            Check if something is showed up the tail pipe. Check if your catalytic converter is clogged by oil (if applicable).

            Obstructed intake.
            Check/Clean your air filter.

            Sensor failure.
            Check that the throttle position sensor outputs a signal that corresponds to the position of the throttle. A laptop and a real-time TPS read is very valuable here.

            Increased fuel pressure.
            If the fuel return line and/or fuel pressure regulator has packed up, you may see an increased fuel pressure that sends in more fuel per duty cycle. Fuel pressure is normally around 45-55psi.

            That's what I can think of from the top of my head.

            /Magnus F.


            • #7
              Hi Magnus. Thanks for the suggestions.
              It seems to have been running rich since I bought the car a couple of years ago.
              The car was already starting to splutter a little every now and then a couple of months ago before I did these two things.
              First, Doug and I increased the fuel pressure from 41-45 to match what the ECU said it was set for.
              Secondly, Gert and I (well, Gert...) added a LC-1 lambda sensor to the system last week.
              Got the ECU to recognise it but did not change any setting in the ECU.
              I just tried to get the fuel filter out but it was a non starter by myself.
              Need to get the roll bar and boot liner out to get at it.

              I will show up to dyno day with as many of your suggestions done as I can do, hopefully it will be good enough to dyno. Unfortunately with my shoulder getting a proceedure tomorrow and then being in a sling for a few days I don't know how much I will be able to do. You guys might have to crane me out of the car when I get there!
              Paul. Birkin S3 /Dunnel zetec/emerald ECU


              • #8
                Aha. It's Doug's fault!

                Increasing the fuel pressure increases the fuel mixture proportionally (to a point).

                Doug did the right thing by increasing the fuel pressure since you will get better fuel atomization, which will lead to cleaner running (especially low rpm). However, the entire fuel map must be pushed down accordingly to compensate for the increased amount of fuel entering the engine as a result of the higher pressure.

                The LC1 lambda sensor (which I've played with) will indeed provide the tool necessary for the ECU to go closed-loop. However, the ECU needs to be configured for this, which yours surely is not.

                I'll take care of this during the mapping session, given that you have a laptop, cable and software and (optionally) password to connect to the ECU. What you need to do is either bring fresh plugs to the session, or unscrew and clean your plugs after you arrive but before we do the dyno runs. If you buy new plugs, use the same type you have today. Playing with plugs come fairly far down the list of things to do.

                /Magnus F.


                • #9
                  I will bring the laptop and software since Paul is an Apple guy (you know one of those Creatives). I have not changed my map for maybe 2 years but I will read the manual again which buttons to push.

                  The LC1 will be valuable in the future since the Emerald can do data logging but for the Dyno Day I know Bisi is going to replace it with his own sensor anyway.

                  And, of course it is Doug's fault. I hope my engine is going strong (and does not blow up) just to piss him off.
                  Last edited by slomove; August 8, 2011, 08:26 PM.


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by slomove View Post
                    And, of course it is Doug's fault. I hope my engine is going strong (and does not blow up) just to piss him off.
                    I'd be happy to take the blame but don't remember what I did???

                    Paul, did new plugs help any?


                    • #11
                      It's not Doug's fault!
                      Cracked me up though!
                      Ran out of time to road test the new plugs. Now my arm is in a sling until tomorrow. Hopefully, I'll fire up the car tomorrow and it will be purring.

                      (this left handed typing takes forever!)
                      Paul. Birkin S3 /Dunnel zetec/emerald ECU


                      • #12
                        Could it be the fuel filter inside the gas tank, this sounds like the same issues I had with my 2003 Birkin. They had put a filter on the inside of the gas tank which lead to the same type of problem you seem to be having. Put a gauge on the fuel rail that can be seen while driving and go for a drive while someone watches the gauge and see if you have a drop in pressure while the problem starts. Another thing I did was to plumb a gas can to replace the fuel tank and I found it ran perfect.

                        Steve Gilo


                        • #13
                          It turned out to be the map was way too rich and just fowling the plugs. After the dyno day it ran better. At least until he broke his motor mount.


                          • #14
                            Having taken off the exhaust I can see that a LOT of carbon has been deposited, both in the exhaust and in the head. Can I just get in the head through the exhaust ports with a toothbrush and gingerly sweep a bunch of it out? Or is that not a good idea?
                            Paul. Birkin S3 /Dunnel zetec/emerald ECU


                            • #15
                              Just leave it alone and it should burn out.