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Duratec install in S3 chassis

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  • Duratec install in S3 chassis

    Cossie Duratec 2.3l engine installed in standard S3 chassis (narrow), and two issues appeared immediately:

    1) Alternator on lower left-front of engine (intake side) just contacts steering rod. Should be easy enough to alter the bracket, so likely to be no big deal, as long as I can move it enough so that it doesn't make contact during the inevitable torque-induced movement of the engine.

    2) Throttle Position Sensor plug on Cosworth's cylindrical intake widget exactly in line with the end of the pedal box (see below). If they had designed this part to point up, down, or to the right, or plus or minus 45 degrees or more in any direction from where it is, there would be no problem - but it is at EXACTLY the wrong orientation. Looks like I'll have to modify my pedal box, then.
    Attached Files
    | | Sean

  • #2
    Sean

    Some TP sensors can be mounted on the other end of the shaft.

    I don't know about this installation but for others they do make ones that can be mounted 180آ؛ from the orientation shown.

    Check it out before beating on the box.

    Another thought, if you cannot change the TPS orientation, modify the electrical connections. You don't need the fancy push on connector. A couple of wires crimped on will do the trick.

    Check with Freestyle and or Caterham, they may have seen this before???

    What part of the alternator hits the steering shaft? I've ground off parts of my alternator case to make it fit, still works fine.

    Doug
    Last edited by Doug Liedblad; January 29, 2008, 12:43 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Given your build, it would be much easier to button to the right, sir, said the English tailor.:D

      I'm sure Magnus will be along shortly about the TPS, but I think Doug's make a different connector is a much better idea than whacking away at the pedal box, particularly aesthetically. The TPS on my SDB throttle bodies is hard-wired directly - no connector.

      I'm pretty sure that the orientation of the sensor itself can only be 1 way and still function (unless you want to use a pull-to-open push-to-close throttle - that'd make for interesting toe n heeling :D). Are you sure it's pointing the right way?

      Edit: Off this thread, it looks like each cylinder has its own coil on the plug directly. Yes?
      Last edited by moosetestbestanden; January 29, 2008, 07:57 AM.
      Chris
      ------------
      A day you don't go a hundred is a day wasted

      Comment


      • #4
        You can usually rotate the sensor 180 degrees. Try to remove the top plastic piece of the sensor and see if it fits the other way.

        Doug is also right about moving the entire sensor to the other end of the shaft.

        /Magnus F.

        Comment


        • #5
          First thing I did was call Cosworth and ask about rotating the TPS 180آ؛. I was told the TPS only works properly in the current orientation, and won't work rotated 180آ؛. As for relocating the TPS to the other end of the CIW (Cylindrical Intake Widget), it is not in front of me now, but IIRC the housing is cast without provision for the TPS on that end, so I would have to hack up the CIW to put the TPS there.

          Ditching the connector sounds like the best option. I hadn't even thought of that - thanks yet again. I like any solution that doesn't involve hacking away at a otherwise well-designed part (though I plan to recommend to Cosworth that they revise their design to have the connector rotated).

          The engine was supplied with the four direct coil-on-plug spark-a-lizer doohickeys. Probably the same as Mr. Magnus has, I'd guess.
          | | Sean

          Comment


          • #6
            Sean,

            Before you get violent on the sensor, try to remove the plastic casing and see if it is possible to rotate it. Cosworth are probably right about the 180 degree rotation, but it is worth 5 minutes to find out.

            The coil on plugs are standard in the new Focus Duratecs. I got mine at the local dealer. Apparently this ignition solution only starts to make sense at extended sessions above 7500 RPM. Why Ford ditched the wasted spark coil solution they used to have is beyond me, but I guess saving a buck or two was the incentive.

            /Magnus F.

            Comment


            • #7
              The TPS on my SBD throttle bodies is hardwired w/ about 4" of heat-shrink wrapped wires back to a connector for their loom. Don't know who makes it or anything about it electricity-wise but the part number on it sez...

              E3220
              19503

              Drop SBD a note at http://www.sbdev.co.uk maybe?
              Chris
              ------------
              A day you don't go a hundred is a day wasted

              Comment


              • #8
                Sean

                Recommend you don't wack up anything until you do more reseach.

                Ford and others buy the TPS from companies that make them very similar but in many configurations.

                Examples here from TWM Induction but when I was looking I found the name and part number on my TPS and did some googling. Found the mfg with all sorts of options such as the identical looking TPS for CW and CCW rotation.

                http://www.twminduction.com/EFI/EFI-FR.html

                Don't limit yourself to TWM. Try the ECU makers like MOTEC, MBE, etc as they often sell the sensor to make it all work.

                Doug

                Comment


                • #9
                  SBD has some pretty specific information on the voltages at setup time and thereafter as well. Don't know if the Cozzy sourced item is like that or if they have an installation procedure documented.

                  Edit: I can float you the .doc file from them if you are interested. Do tell.
                  Last edited by moosetestbestanden; January 29, 2008, 10:38 PM.
                  Chris
                  ------------
                  A day you don't go a hundred is a day wasted

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I sent an e-mail to Cosworth today, and don't plan on doing anything until I hear back from them. I got the whole plug 'n' play from them: loom, ECU, and engine, ready to run. The engine had been dyno'ed and mapped before I even took delivery. I think (hope!) they will be able to advise me on a workable solution soon. If not, oh well, then on to deciding what will be plan B.

                    I'm so close now, that when some minor issues such as these pop up, my first desire is to just rush through with the first solution that pops into my head. But I've waited too long to rush into doing something stu... lacking proper forethought at this point.

                    edit: added dyno plot and photo from around Christmas 2006 when the engine was delivered
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by Sean; January 29, 2008, 11:26 PM. Reason: add photos
                    | | Sean

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sean,

                      Nice dyno plot! Is your engine what Cosworth calls their 250hp spec? Do they also supply the exhaust manifold or was the dyno tuning done with something a little different than you are using?

                      BTW I am a little surprised that they keep the oil filter in the stock position rather than going horizontal like Raceline. Does it extend below the sump?

                      Thanks,
                      John
                      Westfield SEiW
                      2.0L Duratec
                      Throttle Steer

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That is probably their 250HP spec. It is actually identical to the CSR260 engine, but with our lower octane rating here this is what we get.

                        /Magnus F.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JohnCh View Post
                          Sean,

                          Nice dyno plot! Is your engine what Cosworth calls their 250hp spec? Do they also supply the exhaust manifold or was the dyno tuning done with something a little different than you are using?

                          BTW I am a little surprised that they keep the oil filter in the stock position rather than going horizontal like Raceline. Does it extend below the sump?

                          Thanks,
                          John
                          Looks like some dry sump plumbing stubs at the rear of the housing. I presume that the engine has the internal dry sump pump like Magnus'.

                          Odd dip in the torque curve in the 5000s.

                          When Ammo was building my engine he specifically asked about what octane I'd be using. I said race gas, 100+. You should be able to find a station around there that sells it Sean. And you're right to not rush - do it once, do it right. Weather sucks anyway.
                          Chris
                          ------------
                          A day you don't go a hundred is a day wasted

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sean: I believe I have an adapter for mounting the oil filter remotely. Tell me if you are interested and I'll dig it out.

                            /Magnus F.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              John - Yes, it is the CSR260 motor, which as Magnus pointed out is their 250hp spec here. My exhaust is comprised of Raceline collector and four primaries, and Caterham muffler sourced elsewhere. I'm not sure, but it would seem that Alaskossie and I are the first to try to put a CSR260 motor into a LHD narrow chassis in the states. I wonder how his installation is coming along?

                              Chris - Yes, internal pump dry sump system as Magnus has. Except for the roller barrel throttle, I would estimate most all of the engine to be as Magnus has. I'm not too worried about that little dip in the torque curve yet. For now I'll be happy just to get everything installed and get it started!

                              Magnus - Yes, I think a remote oil filter set-up would be very desirable. I was also surprised that Cosworth doesn't relocate it in some way. Incidentally, I removed the oil filter mount and filter as one unit in order to install the engine, and after getting the engine installed, I found I could not fit the filter and mount between the airbox and the chassis from the top, or between the engine and the chassis from the bottom. Same for the starter motor. Just a minor inconvenience, but I wish I had thought of it before I disconnected the engine hoist.
                              Last edited by Sean; January 30, 2008, 06:19 PM.
                              | | Sean

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