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AROSC Enduro May 14/15 2011

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  • AROSC Enduro May 14/15 2011

    I am opening this thread to focus specifically on the May Enduro. This topic surfaced in other threads but should be consolidated here. Last I saw there was a question whether the May AROSC event would include an Enduro or not.

    Looks like we have a few cars that are interested in running the Enduro event. Let's use this thread to continue the discussion.

  • #2
    Thinking about the Enduro

    I'm not sure what the issues are for our group of Seven owners, but somewhere along the way we seem to have lost our focus. A few key events are notable: The 2006 death of Dan Lawson in the Factory Five roadster at Buttonwillow, the departure of Mr. William Sours after his lawsuit with the Caterham world, and more recently the big economic recession. Jon Stokes and Chris Carter soldiered on for awhile and a few people did sporadic events, but where once there was a growing group of "Seven" enthusiasts, we seem to have splintered. I wish I knew the answer to the question of how to bring the group back together and regain the momentum. As much as people seemed to gouse about them, our biggest consistent draws were the L.A. Shelby Club open track events at the Streets of Willow. You know, we did have a lot of fun at those, and the bench racing at the Golden Cantina was priceless. Sometimes even the company was world renown! At any rate, Brad Underdahl and others have expressed interest in the AROSC school coming up in mid-April, and I see the LA Shelby Club has an open track scheduled the last weekend in May (28 & 29).

    So about drumming up some enthusiasm for the upcoming AROSC Enduro (May 14): Here is a posting I submitted about the AROSC Enduro several months ago in response to Doug Liedblad's call to making an assault on the event:

    A couple of ways to go. For the first AROSC enduro at Buttonwillow, Mr. William Sours (does anyone remember him??) ran two cars, one with Milt Minter as the co-driver, and one with John Morton. That got me thinking, and for my first enduro a few years ago, I approached Tony a2z Adamowicz to see if he was interested. He accepted and we had a great time! Lowflying even printed an article about our adventure and Tony Pashely, the editor, did some in-depth research on Tony and included that with the article.

    So to the point. Tony has indicated he'd do another. I'll bet we could talk John into driving again for our group. Davey Jordan would like the opportunity, and Scooter Patrick has not entirely declined if given the chance. Credentials don't come any higher than these guys have, and they are all true professionals, i.e, they understand our desire to have a good race and bring the machinery home in one piece.

    The second way: Both Michael and I are licensed (any others?). We could probably make some pairings within our own organization of Seven owners and field some very competitive efforts. What do you say?

    Best wishes,


    • #3

      Has the AROSC made the decision to run the Enduro for sure?

      I'd contacted them just after they posted the event and they were not 100% sure they would run it.

      Magnus has some interest in running as well as Justin. I don't believe they have a license but were planning on doing the school next month to see if the AROSC would then let them run the event.

      I was going to be there but have a conflict with F2000.

      Are you planning on being there?

      Also Pierre DeMartine is making some noises about running, if he gets his clutch fixed.

      Last edited by Doug Liedblad; February 22, 2011, 07:27 PM.


      • #4
        I've got it on my calendar if you guys decide to do it! I hopefully will have my car back together soon. The clutch plate failed, and I'm waiting for parts. I may go to the April driving school as well.

        Has anyone done this driving school and/or the SCCA driving school? I keep thinking of going to the SCCA driving school just for the experience. I've done 40 or 50 HPDE's over the last 8 years, but never any wheel-to-wheel competition. I had thought about joining SCCA spec miata, but then I wouldn't have as much time to track the Caterham. Wish there were a series we could run our cars in!

        Nevertheless, I might do one of these driver's schools just for more experience. Any thoughts on the two? The SCCA school is relatively cheap compared to the professional schools. I have no ambitions of becoming a competitive racer, just love driving on track.



        • #5
          I have done the AROSC driving school probably 3 or 4 times and may do that again in April. Not so much for the school aspect (the mandatory presentations are good for new drivers but get a bit stale after the 2nd time) but for the opportunity to do extensive skid pad exercises (even if not on wet surface anymore) and the unusual tight go-cart track. Gives a pretty good feel for the limits of the car that you normally won't dare to explore on the regular track to avoid embarrassing or damaging field trips.

          On top of that you get a lot of regular track time, although limited to the short Streets circuit. Overall a good value for the money but I would not call this a race school.


          • #6
            Justin, if you want to go wheel to wheel, that's racing. There is a huge difference between racing and non-racing track events such as HPDE and time trial. In HPDE everyone is supposed to be polite while driving well within their limits; in time trial everyone is supposed to be polite while driving as hard as they can; and in racing everyone is driving as hard as they can while trying to ruin your day.

            If you really want to go racing, you need to prepare your car for racing and get a log book (this involves a thorough technical inspection for compliance with racing rules), you need full race-compliant personal equipment (SFI clothing, probably a HANS, etc), and you need to go through race school or convince a sanctioning body that you have sufficient alternative experience. I went the latter route with NASA and spent a season or so racing my Seven in NASA's super unlimited class. The problem you will encounter is that you will be the only seven in the class and you will rub door handles with Miatas, stock cars, monster trucks and whatever other junkyard dogs make it through tech. You will always have the smallest car with the straightest bodywork on the track.

            If your goal is to have fun while gradually building your skills and speed, then you don't need to go to race school. Just attend the NASA HPDE sessions and start building from there. I think Chris Carter did that and is now a blazingly fast time trialler (Chris that will cost you). Undoubtedly there will be a wide range of opinions on NASA's program and its various foibles but I don't think you will find a more cost effective, well managed and structured program that allows you to progress at your own pace.


            • #7
              I think Chris Carter did that and is now a blazingly fast time trialler
              No, that's a blazingly average time trialler using blazingly fast (sticky) tires (that go off after 2 sessions).:D

              Does AROSC accept a NASA race license?
              A day you don't go a hundred is a day wasted


              • #8
                Originally posted by moosetestbestanden View Post
                Does AROSC accept a NASA race license?
                For TT or Race?

                I believe they accepted Murphy's for the Enduro last year.

                In the past they have been fairly loose on who they'll accept for the Enduro, especially if you've gotten to know them.

                If you can, sign up for their TT and Race school next month at Willow Springs. It's on the Streets.


                • #9
                  Actually I used my Indy Racing League license for the AROSC Enduro last year. Just thought I'd mention it since I'm a total wanker (and the license was soooo damn expensive). I'm sure AROSC will accept NASA and SCCA licenses - the licensing director seemed pretty relaxed.


                  • #10
                    I might do the AROSC school just for fun. I've gotten some amount of feel for the low speed limits and characteristics of the car through autocrossing, but I've never had it on a skid pad.

                    I like the comment about "in racing everyone is driving as hard as they can while trying to ruin your day!" That is funny! I have friends who are in different SCCA series, and follow the forums a little bit, and have seen that given my nature I am probably much happier just doing track days than spending the time and money to race. Maybe someday. For now, though, I do want to take some opportunities to learn.

                    Looking forward to seeing you guys again soon!


                    • #11
                      Hi Guys

                      I am new to this board, and having experienced racing with AROSC for years , inc the enduro with Tony A2Z in the burgundy Caterham, let me just say these guys are a great group to race with. There is a no contact rule and they follow the vintage type 13/13 aspect of policing the entrants. If you cause , or are involved , in a track incident it will be investigated and if found at fault, not invited back.
                      This is not rubbing is racing- we leave each other racing room, albeit it might be fractions of an inch :) . But you can be certain we don't want any contact or dangerous moves.

                      If my schedule permits, look out for a black 914-6 in your mirrors :lol::lol:

                      Hope to see more of you other there


                      • #12
                        Buttonwillow Enduro

                        I just received the February AROSC "Alfacionada". It includes the May 14-15 event at Buttonwillow and includes their Driver Education, TT and Race classes, but no mention of the enduro. I will try to find out more this week.

                        The burgandy Caterham with Tony a2z driving - that was our first enduro. Doug handled the fueling and I drove the second half of that race. Tony consistently turned about 2-3 second quicker laps than I did, and despite our mistakes, we got a second in class and about 5th overall. We learned a lot in that event. Last year, Michael Murphey co-drove my roadsport Seven (on street tires) and also turned some very quick laps, some quicker than even the overall winning car (apparently his very expensive IRL license is indeed, worth something!). I wish I could say the same, but have the excuse of being stuck behind a WILDLY driven GTV that got ahead at the start. Although passing opportunities did materialize, I deferred to caution at risk of ruining our day and losing my ride home (see Michael's comments in #6 above). Doug's new fueling rig helped us to a very short pit-stop. With a few more tweeks, it's reasonable to believe a podium finish is in our future!

                        Anyone signed up for the NASA event at Cal Speedway this coming weekend?

                        Best wishes,
                        Last edited by Clark; February 28, 2011, 05:34 PM. Reason: A few typo changes


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Clark View Post
                          Anyone signed up for the NASA event at Cal Speedway this coming weekend?
                          I wish. But my tow vehicle is sitting in the garage sans most of its engine. The block comes out sometime next weekend and the project is likely to end round about the end of March at the earliest.

                          And as much as i'd like to go out next weekend and say hello to the NASA fellas who I've come to know, and as much as I'd LOVE to go out and drive, the reality is that repairing - restoring - the Venerable One is top priority. I'm like totally stoked dudes about the notion of a virtually new Crusty pulling the trailer over the summertime Grapevine and/or doing long pulls up the valley to Thunderhill or Infineon. So, first things first.

                          And 2nd things 2nd, that being another long delayed engine out job. There are enough undefined elements about that task to make predicting a return to the track a guess at best. My goal is the NASA May event but we'll see. I have to work for a living you see, and the fuckers there expect me there. Rats.

                          For the record, like double M I have no interest in driving on the Streets. Counter to some opinions I think that The Streets is far more dangerous and risky than the big track, and not nearly so much fun.

                          When I get back out I'll be sticking to NASA TT, when I get the project done. I know the other drivers by and large and I like the notion of trying to wring every last bit of time out of a given piece of equipment, er, given set of tires. Besides, I'm poor and so not so wild about the idea of the expense of getting punted by some red-misty-eyed middle aged haut bourgeois guy doing the arrive n drive I'm M. Schumacher now Mazda 7 thing (ahem) or similar such (much smaller than them) Caterham crunching nonsense. If I'm going to end up w/ a fucked up car I want to be the sole responsible party for the damage.

                          Endurance races are interesting to me and I will consider them when I get a proper license. 25 minute sprint races w/ big Corvettes and 3000 lb. American Iron cars and arrive-n-drive hired cars and Factory 5s and such like are not.

                          So maybe I'll see ya'll out there, and maybe not. For this spring it's looking like not. So ya'll have fun w/out me! :D
                          Last edited by moosetestbestanden; March 1, 2011, 12:07 AM.
                          A day you don't go a hundred is a day wasted


                          • #14
                            Thunderhill, Infineon and Beyond!

                            Hey Moose, when you're ready to take that plunge up the beautiful I-5 to Thunderhill or Infineon, please let me know. If you wouldn't mind the company, I'd like to tag along. Mr. Murphey recommends Infineon if there's a choice. I've never driven there, so it would be fun to learn a new track.



                            • #15

                              We did Infineon once with NASA. It's great. Main drawback is there isn't a lot or run off room before you find the energy barrier.

                              No one I know had a problem that weekend but I can't say that for other times I've been there.
                              Last edited by Doug Liedblad; March 1, 2011, 03:49 PM.