Foam-a-thon

[moosetestbestanden]

Doug,

I think (feel) it's about time to do the foam seat thing. Let's work out a schedule, sometime in the next 30 days or so. My place, or yours, or Magnus', although he says he's in possession of an aluminum chair to sit in, he being of the 'add more weightness' persuasion.:D

Anyone interested welcome to join of course. The more the foamier.

My only thing is the end o June TT at Buttonwillow (and still a slight chance of Infineon - I wish), and this coming weekend's out. PM me, or whatever.

[Doug Liedblad]

June doesn't look too good. Maybe the 8th would work but I won't know until next week. The 14th might be possible.

Your place is more central if others want to get in on the action.

Doug

[Elv15]

FWIW, I just got this from pegaus: http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...asp?RecId=1038

Let me know if you guys are coming up to Infineon and I'd be happy to join in the foam fun.

Tom

PS: I am signed up for the Infineon event June 28/29

[Michael Murphy]

Tom, the 2 part foam from Pegasus seems very cheap. I paid about $100 for two part foam from West Marine. Perhaps the Pegasus cans are smaller but I doubt they would be very much smaller. If so, and if the stuff works, it's a bargain. Not sure how that could possibly be so given the source of supply.

[Elv15]

The canoe story

Hi Michael,

Yep, they say the cans are enough for three seats. It is two quarts of liquid. It will be interesting to see how it goes.

Hopefully we can avoid a canoe story: see the post about 1/2 way down the page :eek: :eek: :eek: :D

[New2 7's]

When you guys figure out a time, let me know cause I'm interested in pouring some seat also.


Scott
Los Angeles

[Doug Liedblad]

http://www.sjmmarsh.f2s.com/Caterham/Foam%20Seat.html

More instructions from Dave Jackson http://www.blatchat.com/T.asp?id=31537

'I have made several of the foam seats for others using the 2 part kits . I have found the best place to buy the PU mix is from CFS - 01209 821028 . You should need about 5Kg for one seat .

The foam is fine to work with so long as you do some preparation and you will need an assistant to mix and pour whilst you sit and mould .

I would suggest you get some heavy duty 4 foot long bags to use , I use some tear proof bags from work . When you mix the 2 parts , only mix about 500g of each and do repeat pours untill you gain confidence and a feel for the expansion rate .The foam expands after about 30 seconds of being mixed and then continues expanding for around 4 minutes . The reaction is exothermic but I have done all the moulds with the driver wearing just his race suit . The feeling is warm and snug - not too hot to handle !!

I start by covering all the indents and belts with Duck tape to make a smooth surface . and remove the center tunnel cover . Then determine the position of the driver using 15mm thick sections of polystyrene , normally one on the floor and a few behind his back , then start by making the base . Place a bag on the floor of the car , and get the driver sat in his position . Pour 500g mix of foam and pour into the bag . the driver will have to lift himself wilst it goes under his bum . Repeat this process untill the base is done - maybe 4 pours . You should check the bag isnt split when you peel it away from the foam following each pour . I normally use a fresh bag if in doubt .

Then remove the base , this will be very hard as the belt straps and indents will mean the foam is a very tight fit . Trim 5mm off the sides of the seat base with a bread knife . Then cut the back of the base horizontal to make a neat surface for the back section to butt upto . Place the base back in the car inside a fresh bag .

Now the back . Using another bag . with the driver seated , place the bag down behind his back - I would suggest the bag comes at least 6 inches above his neck incase of spillage , but do multiple pours and this is not a risk . Mix 500g of foam and pour . Make sure that the driver finds his ideal position as soon as possible . Repour untill you are happy .

Finally trim the top and sides .

Done .

The CFS foam doesnt go crumbly , so long as you mix the correct amount and do it on a warm day to enable full expansion .'

[Michael Murphy]

Having built several seats (and a couple of notable failures) for the F2000 car, I'd add the following advice:

The best method of trimming the seat is an electric carving knife. Avoid air powered tools at all costs.

The seats do not "give" unless you bash them with a hammer so take a little extra car to trim out wrinkles and bumps around pressure points such as behind and below the knees.

WHen you are satisfied that the seat is as good as you can make it, cover it entirely (top, bottom, sides) with gaffer tape. Double or triple tape the high impact areas that are likely to be crushed as you get in and out of the car. I have found that any exposed foam will crumble and leave a sandy mess everywhere.

The seat part is pretty easy. Of greater concern to me is head protection. I think that the old trick of putting foam padding on the roll bar is a great idea as long as you don't have an accident. In an accident I reckon it could be a disaster. Some kind of large, flat head restraint with a small amount of give is essential. While you are at it, if you are planning to track the car, think about adding a side bolster. I bought a bolt-on aluminum bolster from UltraShield for about $30. Could save your neck in a side impact. Perhaps a little extreme for HPDE-type events but, as the guy in the Mini Cooper found to his great detriment last weekend at Willow Springs, even a seemingly solid car might not save you at the speeds we run on those big tracks.

[Elv15]

Michael, good advice. Do you have a link for the bolster?

[Michael Murphy]

Tom, I used one of these, but you need a seat back to bolt it to:

http://www.ultrashieldrace.com/prod.php?id=19

[moosetestbestanden]

Comments / opinions welcomed on this little fella

here

Also, Michael, if you're watching, is the Pegasus URL that Tom mentioned enough? They say it is enough for 3 Formula car seats. Can you give a rough estimate of that compared to what a Caterham seat may require?

[Michael Murphy]

Chris, the cheapo two part foam should be enough for a single caterham seat assuming you don't want to extend the seat forward of your knees. We made about four formula seats with the same quantity. The expensive bead-foam seat that you linked to above is the cat's meow and when made professionally produces a very nice product. I have not made one but I have seen the results. Note however that the bead seat kit requires an extended period of vacuum suction to maintain the shape of the seat while the foam cures. I'm not sure how easy or hard that would be as a first-time user and, at $350 per kit, I'm not inclined to experiment. I think there is some skill involved in doing it right. There is a guy in Norcal who will build a seat for you using the same materials for about $900, covered in Nomex. I can dig out his name if you want.

Again, my biggest concern with using a poured seat in a caterham is how you will stop your head from popping off in an accident. Formula cars don't have that problem due to the shape of the chassis and roll hoop. Perhaps you could just pour a seat insert to fit inside your existing composite seats?

On another point, please advise the name of your trailer builder. Link if possible as well. Thanks!

[slomove]

Again, my biggest concern with using a poured seat in a caterham is how you will stop your head from popping off in an accident.

Michael, I don't know how Woody did that doing a multiple barrel roll at Willow Springs. But at least he had the cage and maybe he was just lucky. But if you have a good idea of keeping the head in place I would be interested. Would a sturdy "halo", mounted in place of the regular head bump plate on the roll bar diagonal help?I noticed the halo from Ultrashield will fold away in case of an accident.

On another point, please advise the name of your trailer builder. Link if possible as well. Thanks!

You need something like this beautiful piece of hardware :-D


sorry, no manufacturer link and one-of-a-kind.......

Gert

[magnusfeuer]

These guys made a custom built trailer for me and Chris for $2500 each.

http://www.mightymovertrailers.com/

Single axle (on our request), electric brakes, 8 little fastener loops for the front and rear wheels and a spare wheel. The paint is starting to come loose at places, but it is one good trailer.

/Magnus F.

[moosetestbestanden]

These guys made a custom built trailer for me and Chris for $2500 each.

http://www.mightymovertrailers.com/

Single axle (on our request), electric brakes, 8 little fastener loops for the front and rear wheels and a spare wheel. The paint is starting to come loose at places, but it is one good trailer.

/Magnus F.

2nded. Driving w/ hot slicks directly onto a waiting trailer wasn't too smart, paint-wise. Torsion suspension too, nice and low. It tows as easy as you please. We got radials (or I did anyway) and the spare tire as noted. The radials are really worth it in my opinion.